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Question about guilds and guesting.

Ban Saighdiuir de na Iomproidh
Delandria
Ban Saighdiuir de na Iomproidh
  • GW2: Delandria.2638
Posted On: 10/06/2012 at 07:37 PM
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Hey Fog, I saw you post on another thread about only being able to join 3 guilds? Maybe I am misunderstanding but I am in 4 actually and it lets me, not sure if they changed it or not. I do have a question about guesting though. I think right now it is inactive and people are physically transferring servers to play with friends so they are getting removed. I am not sure how the guesting works but when it becomes active will we be removed for that? I was under the assumption that with guesting you are still tied to your server and it worked kind of like the overflow servers? I know its not relevant yet but I was just curious. Thanks.

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Response:

Caomhnoir de na Fhiaigh Corcra
Hex
Caomhnoir de na Fhiaigh Corcra
Replied On: 10/07/2012 at 02:22 AM PDT

Thanks for your question. It was raised in today's Elder meeting, and we decided that we are going to wait until Arenanet release more information on guesting and whether your guild tag is visible on the servers you visit. Once we have more info we will post and let everyone know :)

» Edited on: 2012-10-07 02:23:02

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Curadh de na Sailetheach
Arowefell
Curadh de na Sailetheach
  • GW2: Quigley.9236
Replied On: 10/07/2012 at 05:41 AM PDT

So, I get the limited numbers reason for people to be off-server. SoR is our home server, there isn't enough room for everyone in the universe, so it makes sense to limit membership to SoR only. However, the "we can't control our reputation when you go to another server" angle has come up a number of times, and this confuses me. How do the Elders have any more or less control on another server than they do on SoR? If a member does something idiotic on SoR, someone sees it and reports them via the forums or by whispering an Elder. I can't see how this would change on another server. Is there really a concern that people will behave themselves on SoR, then guest out to another server and act like a sailor on first shore leave? That sounds like someone who ought to be punted, regardless of which server it's on. The Gaiscioch Way doesn't say "act like a decent person on Sanctum of Rall", or "act like a decent person when the Elders are looking". It says "be a decent person". I don't understand how a member in good standing (and therefore most likely a decent person) represents any risk when guesting on another server for a few hours here and there.

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Ban Saighdiuir de na Iomproidh
Delandria
Ban Saighdiuir de na Iomproidh
  • GW2: Delandria.2638
Replied On: 10/07/2012 at 06:56 AM PDT
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Thanks for the answer. I do understand the reason for removing if you transfer to another server and I've seen a lot of guilds having it a requirement that you are on their chosen server to be in the guild. It makes sense, especially if you are a large guild with limited space. I was just confused by what I was reading in another thread. We do not know how exactly guesting is going to work so I guess we will have to wait and see. I do have friends on multiple servers that I might like to play with now and then but I would not want to be removed from GSCH for guesting on another server for a couple of hours. I have no desire to transfer just to play though because you have to wait 24 hrs to come back and my luck they will stop free transfers and I will have to pay to come back.

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Caomhnoir de na Fhiaigh Corcra
Hex
Caomhnoir de na Fhiaigh Corcra
Replied On: 10/07/2012 at 11:20 AM PDT

@ Desidaria: Remember, you will get an invite back to Gaiscioch as soon as you return to Sanctum of Rall, so you are not removed from the guild on the website, just in game.

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Ban Fili de na Griobhta Dearg
Briseadh
Ban Fili de na Griobhta Dearg
  • GW2: Briseadh.7386
Replied On: 10/07/2012 at 11:42 AM PDT
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It's not a concern about people being good or bad at all. It's community perception, especially on a WvW front. If you are on another server out in the battlegrounds wearing our guild tag even for a good reason, it could be perceived as spying. Even more so if it is a server we are competing against in WvW. People jump to conclusions very easily, so we prefer the Gaiscioch tag only be seen on SoR. That eliminates any chance of anyone misperceiving things and screaming, "SPIES!" We all know how trolls can be and we will not feed them. So it is not a control thing. It's so you don't oops and go in WvW when on another server with our guild tag still on and wind up feeding a troll by accident. See it as a sign that reads, "Danger! Do not feed the trolls!" These kinds of trolls are harder to kill with kindness by the way. So if you want to go to another server, it is allowed without the guild and you can pop on the website and click for a re-invite when you want to come back to SoR. Also, at this time, the only option is to transfer and currently that is at least a day, but they might make it longer as populations settle down or make you pay for it. The original plan I knew of during beta was that in live you would have to pay 1800 gems for a server transfer. Right now it is free with time restriction until you can transfer back again. Just some added info to chew on.

» Edited on: 2012-10-07 11:44:12

Don't mess with Mama Bear, I might hug you too tight. =D
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Taoiseach de na Arach Glas
Foghladha
Taoiseach de na Arach Glas
  • GW2: Foghladha.2506
  • ESO: @Foley
Replied On: 10/07/2012 at 12:09 PM PDT
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Arrow, When you first came to Gaiscioch you questioned our security. I know that you understand security and have a pretty strong background in it. On Sanctum of Rall we have hundreds of eyes and ears watching our membership. We have alliance kin, members, and people who know us constantly watching. If someone acts out we see it, we get notified (Oh believe me we get notified). When someone goes to another server we have no eyes, no ears, no way of telling if someone is behaving or misbehaving. It would take someone googling us to even know what guild we are. People on SOR know us. The server is named because of us. People on other servers have no clue who we are. We have a VERY close relationship with ArenaNet, the Press, and the Gaming Community and I really don't want to see that compromised because someone felt the need to go be a jerk on another server. Trust me when I say it takes 1 coinsurance of wrong doing to taint our name and takes 10 occurrences of good doing to clear it. Running a community this size is a lot like running a business. It's all about PR and the way the public views your community. Think about it would your company let you take their brand into a market they are not in use it as you will and have no eyes on what your doing with their reputation? It's brand security. There's no way in hell that a large corporation would allow you as a regular every day joe employee advertise their brand without authorization in a market they have not broken into. Hell companies have Social Media policies in place for this very reason. It's a matter of brand integrity. It's the same reason we do not allow Gaiscioch to be used in other games by our members. Without accountability and constant vision on what's being done with our name it could go south really quick. Honestly We've spent 11 years building this reputation and quite like that Game companies approach us to help them with products. Now that aside here's some other things to consider. When someone goes off server they still have access to our guild bank. They can empty it switch guilds and dunp all of it into a new bank. Thus cleaning us out instantly. There are no specific limit settings for guild banks. Their on or off. Everything from funds to items can be taken out in an unlimited basis. With the number of hacked accounts showing the first thing these hacked accounts are doing is transferring the character to a new server. It's a tell tell sign someone has been hacked. For our security and to know that one of our members who may or may not have been hacked is not out there blanket spamming chat channels and mailboxes we remove them before the damage spreads to our reputation. Additionally. We have only about 300 more spots between all of our guilds. I receive 20 - 40 requests the join the family every day. At our current growth rate we should cap out entirely by the end of the month which poses a whole new set of problems. To give a spot to someone that is not invested in being a part of our server while telling someone that wants to play with us that they cant join is silly. If your going to go to a new server I need you to leave the guild before you do. If your taking an extended period away from the game leave the guild before you do. Getting a reinvite is as simple as clicking a button. Nothing gets removed from your profile. Your membership in our family is not linked to any game in particular. You can be a part of our family without even playing a game we play. We don't remove accounts unless the person does something against our rules or credos. People who registered in Warhammer Online and haven't played since still have an account waiting for their return. Lastly, and this is the BIG ONE. If a member of our family transfers to a server we are fighting in WvW it appears to be a issue of "Spying". Being accused of spying usually results in us being labeled as hackers and cheats. If one of our members went out into WvW on that server think of how it would look from the home server perspective. "Hey there's a GSCH in our tower, Their spying on us!" Boom gasoline on a fire. Our reputation goes up in smoke in an instant and we all of a sudden get branded as the type of guild that sends people onto foreign servers to spy. The whole spy topic cost us a long time member already and is not an easy one to dispel. Even if that person was just trying to get an achievement, their intentions and what it appears are 2 entirely different things. This situation is by far the one I dread the most as the guy who has to clean up these messes. The person could have the purest intentions but it doesn't look good to the public. Intentions don't matter in public opinion. All that matters is what it appears to be. And a GSCH on our enemies battlefield looks very very very bad. That said, once guesting is available it will show differently that someone that is outright on another server. We will allow people to Guest because of the limitations a guested user has. It provides us a bit more security and the vaults / influence and everything gets separated from the equation. In fact from what I saw in beta you can't access the bank at all on the other server. With the hightend security and the inability to go to WvW at all Guesting allows us a bit more leniency and control over what is being done on that foreign server. I'm still not to sure about letting Guested accounts represent while overseas but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Regarding part 2 Arrowefell, how do we discern from those that just joined and those that have been her a long time? Everyone is member rank in Guild Wars 2. We allow everyone a chance to be a part of our family. It's up to them as to what they do with that chance. Trust me we have our fair share of "sailors" on Sanctum of Rall in our family and it takes weeks to months to gain enough evidence to justify their removal. There's not a day that goes by that I'm not having to deal with someone tainting our name by doing something stupid. If I could TRUST everyone to live the Gaiscioch Way then it would make life a whole lot easier. But the day you join Gaiscioch you just don't become the Gaiscioch Way. You learn it. Through fellowship and time through the family. People adapt to it. Not everyone starts off that way. We've had several members that came from various backgrounds that outright were opposite of the way we should conduct ourselves but over time have come to learn why we behave this way and be an active part of helping others take that transition. It's a choice each person has to make and ultimately decides whether they will really harness the life of a Gaiscioch or just join a "Guild" to be in a guild. So in short: If your going on a vacation to another server please leave the guild before you go. When you return click "Request Reinvite" and you'll get a reinvite in a few hours. If you've gotta go away from the game for a while, Leave the Guild so that other people can use your spot while your gone. Then click Request Reinvite when you come back and we'll get you back in. It's all about Courtesy. I know it's not so common these days but we as Gaiscioch need to display it more than ever. Being the only light in a world of darkness makes us shine brightly. Do what is rare and we will be noticed. It's about putting your best foot forward and protecting that which you hold dearest.

"It's not the loot and accolades you walk away with, it's the memories and friendships that you cherish forever." - Foghladha
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Curadh de na Sailetheach
Arowefell
Curadh de na Sailetheach
  • GW2: Quigley.9236
Replied On: 10/07/2012 at 01:44 PM PDT

We are absolutely on the same page regarding the current situation, where people transfer off SoR. They shouldn't wear the tag. Personally, that's a rule I'd keep even if guilds could hold an infinite number of people. Why ArenaNet allowed for cross-server guilds in the first place is beyond me, it's like an open invitation for collusion and bad blood. I've booted people from guilds for spying (I caught my main tank and primary healer sitting on the enemy's ventrilo server, feeding information to our PVP team), and, while the stakes weren't as high for my 80 person unknown raid guild as they are for your thousands-strong enterprise, I do understand building and protecting the brand. It's the reason I spent an extra 15 minutes on the pirate jumping puzzle last night, using my handy-dandy flamethrower to light up the dark room at the end for a group of [SiN] that were working through it. The question about Guesting (specifically Guesting, not transferring) came up on RaidCall last night, and the asker was told by several people that it wouldn't be allowed. That seemed unreasonable to me, so when I saw this thread, I thought I'd chime in and ask "why". It just didn't seem right to ask people to forego an intended social aspect of the game, when a simple "Please stand down while guesting" policy would suffice. Those people were, apparently, incorrect, so all's right with the world. As an aside, if I ever wind up on the "evidence gathering" list, I hope you guys will just tell me what I've been accused of, so I can either make amends for whatever wrong I've caused, or be on my way. There's a lot less waste of both our time that way.

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Ban Saighdiuir de na Iomproidh
Delandria
Ban Saighdiuir de na Iomproidh
  • GW2: Delandria.2638
Replied On: 10/07/2012 at 02:11 PM PDT
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Wow, I feel like I have opened up a can of worms or something. Sorry! Thanks, Fog (and the other Elders) for the clarification. You guys work really hard and have a lot on your plates. I used to run a MUD so I know how it is. We didn't have thousands of players so I can't imagine what you go through. I know its pretty easy to get a re-invite but I was just curious about the guesting aspect. I didn't mean to make any waves or anything.

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Curadh de na Capall Gorm
Kilashandra
Curadh de na Capall Gorm
Replied On: 01/18/2013 at 04:49 PM PST
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Now that the guesting feature has been unveiled, have there been any announcements from elders regarding if or how this will affect our membership in the guild while guesting? I have several friends that are on another server, and plan on guesting while things are slow, but don't know how my membership status would be affected......

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Taoiseach de na Arach Glas
Foghladha
Taoiseach de na Arach Glas
  • GW2: Foghladha.2506
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Replied On: 01/18/2013 at 04:55 PM PST
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We will need to see how it works first before we can decide

"It's not the loot and accolades you walk away with, it's the memories and friendships that you cherish forever." - Foghladha
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