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New Computer time? GW2

Laoch de na Ulchabhan Dearg
Lakshmi
Laoch de na Ulchabhan Dearg
  • GW2: Lakshmi.5941
Posted On: 07/28/2012 at 10:48 AM

So... my gaming computer is 2 or 3 years old now, and it's time to consider upgrade/replace options for GW2.  It runs the game fine at 1920x1080 on Best Performance, and I get decent framerates except for super crowded areas, or server lag. 

My goal is to get decent framerates on Balanced.  (Call me weird, but I really don't like the way the game looks on max -- the uncanny valley is FAR worse.  Players/NPCs gain a fakey, shiny, metally looks that's... ugh.)

Also I prefer to run lower-power rigs... save the planet, you know.  Power gluttony is the big reason I've stayed away from dual video cards.

My current specs:

Core i7 860 @ 2.80Ghz

8GB DDR3 SDRAM

ATI Radeon HD 5750 1GB

SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5"

I'm not much of a hardware geek, so it'll take digging for me to find more details than this.  Anything obvious jump out as a bottleneck to GW2 performance?

Thanks! Shmi

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Curadh de na Fhiaigh Gorm
Themau
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Replied On: 07/28/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT
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sooo so far i can see the only thing u would need to change is the graphic card let me see yeah i would change the graphic card now it depends how much u wanna pay .everything else looks good dpednds now on the mainboard and as i said how big ur budget is .but u need to calculate 165 euros minimum+++

» Edited on: 2012-07-28 11:32:32

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Keegan
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Replied On: 07/28/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT
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I feel your pain Lakshmi. My rig is slightly older than yours and I had a horrible time the past 2 betas in the battlegrounds. My screen would lock up and ultimately I would end up dead. I'm running an E8400 core 2 duo, evga 780i mainboard, 8G of ram and a evga gtx460 vid card. I'm looking at Intel Core i7-3770K Ivy Bridge 3.5GHz CPU, Asus Sabertooth Z77 mainboard, G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB)x2 and a EVGA GeForce GTX 560 Ti x1 . Probably going to keep the same case and power supply. I'm also thinking about going hydro on cooling. Still a little skeptical about it (I think it's more like afraid of leaks). Newegg is a really good source of information as well as a place of purchase. Tis where I buy all of my parts and I've yet to have a DOA part.

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Themau
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Replied On: 07/28/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT
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at paja i would recommend u to go for the pci express 3.0 instead of buying a 560 go for the 600 series cause dont save the cash on the wrong spot u could drop the sabertooth and go for a diffrent pci 3.0 3rd generation intel board also why a i7? do u do alot photoshop and video editing? cause if not a i5 is well enough about the liquid cooling its fine aslong u get one of the good brands also if ur really thinkiing of going liquid cooling think about buying directly a gpu for liquid cooling

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Lorgaire
Lucent
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Replied On: 07/28/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT
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I would definitely take a look at your graphics card, you might want to consider something like the ATI Radeon 6850, 7770, or the GTX 560, those are reasonably good cards that are well worth the money, while not necessarily being too much. My personal suggestion would be to go with something like this - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150598 XFX is a very good card company in my opinion and getting something like this, you should not be disappointed.

» Edited on: 2012-07-28 13:39:50

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Curadh de na Capall
Onchu
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Replied On: 07/28/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT

I built my last desktop in 2004. When that started giving me trouble a couple years ago I went to a laptop. I was thinking about building a new desktop but once I started pricing out components it seems like I can buy one pre-built for about the same price. What do you tech geeks think about these specs? I really haven't kept with the new technology over the years. Intel Core i7-2600K 3.4GHz 64 bit Quad-Core Processor Cache per Processor 8MB L3 Cache Memory - 8GB DDR3-1333 Optical Drive 1 - 24X DL DVD+/-RW Drive AMD Radeon HD 6850 1GB Gigabit Ethernet Power Supply - 700W Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit This comes from Newegg for around 1k and also includes a keyboard and 5 button mouse http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883227386

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Ryverwynd
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Replied On: 07/28/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT

Onchu, I have built my own computers since the mid '90s. I was pricing out components for a new build each month this year. I ended up going with a pre-built PC when I realized I could not order the same parts and pay less than they were going to send me the computer for. If you find a good deal with good parts internally, there is nothing wrong with having someone else build it :) Overall, that looks like a decent price on first glance. I would suggest researching what the power supply is; 700 should be ok for now if it is a decent one. Mine was just a bit more overall, with the i5-3750k, NVidia 570 and a 850W decent power supply. If you are not sure about the video card, there are sites you can find that will give you comparisons.

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Laoch de na Ulchabhan Dearg
Lakshmi
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  • GW2: Lakshmi.5941
Replied On: 07/29/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT

Lots of great tips, thanks! Does anyone have a good site for video card performance comparison? I did a little looking at the Radeon HD 7770 yesterday, and found posts from folks whose perf dropped (!) when they upgraded to it from the Radeon HD 5750 (my current card). So I guess I'm looking for a little advice, too, about what matters in a video card for GW2.

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Briseadh
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Replied On: 07/29/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT
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One thing you should also verify is your power supply wattage to have that info handy when checking out the graphics cards. All graphics cards now usually tell you the minimum power (wattage), but usually it works better if you go a bit higher. Why am I saying this? My graphics card died and I got a new one that supposedly worked with 400W, which is low these days, but my computer is about the age of yours. Turns out the thing burned out the connection. I'm on 700W now and having no issues. Also, figured out my other video issue was actually due to the surge protector strip I was using, but now I have a midrange UPS that works well. My recommendation is 600W minimum even if some say 400W only due to my issues and what two different reliable tech companies around me have told me. Funny thing is I find the guy who works out of his house far more reliable and trustworthy than the bigger shop in the city. ;) So if you don't know the wattage, open the PC and on the side of the power supply and it should have a number followed by a W for the watts the supply can handle.

Don't mess with Mama Bear, I might hug you too tight. =D
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Aardvarkk
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Replied On: 07/29/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT
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Bri brings up a very good point. PSU's are critical to a computer's performance and can affect every aspect if parts are underpowered. I have a similar setup to yours, Lakshmi, and I'm using a 850 watt psu. It might be overkill, but not by much.

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Devina1
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Replied On: 07/29/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT

I also try to get modular power supplies, then I dont have all the extra cords in the case that I dont need.

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Fine de na Sailetheach
Sarosan
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Replied On: 07/29/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT
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Video card. How much are you willing to spend on one? Everything else is fine. Could you get better in every category? Yes. Are you going to notice a huge difference in framerate by upgrading your CPU or RAM? No. That 5750 has to go. Also, contrary to what people say you don't need a high wattage PSU. Just make sure it's good quality. A system with a GTX 690 uses about 480w under load (playing metro 2033). Even with that card, all you'd need is a good 650w unit (corsair, pc power & cooling, seasonic, antec). Check out anandtech's review of the gtx 690 for look at what high end systems are using these days for power.

» Edited on: 2012-07-30 07:33:52

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Sarosan
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Replied On: 07/30/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT
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I'd get a GTX 560. The 660s are going to be in the $300 price range. The 560s are about $170 and should nearly double your framerate in most games. PCI-E 3.0 isn't worth looking into unless you're willing to change your whole system. Worry about that next time you rebuild. @Lakshmi Go to http://www.anandtech.com and click on "bench" near the top right. From there, click on "GPU 2012" and select the two products you want to compare. You'll see even the 7770 pretty well destroys the 5750. However, I'd try and spend the extra $40 on the GTX 560 just because it's about a 15% increase in framerate going from the 7770 to the GTX 560. It's the difference between being able to up that eye-candy or not. That being said, Alake is playing with a 7770 and GW2 seemed to run fine. The whole reason I haven't recommended a CPU upgrade is because at 1920x1080 you're far more GPU bound than anything. Especially once you turn up that eye-candy. My overall advice is to spend as much as you can on a sick video card then worry about the cpu, motherboard, and ram in a couple years when it needs to be upgraded as badly as your video card does.

» Edited on: 2012-07-30 08:00:46

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Aardvarkk
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Replied On: 07/30/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT
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Here is the power supply I use and have been very happy with it, and like Rusted said, it's modular so you can add or remove cables as you need them. If you buy one I'd check newegg and tigerdirect for prices, I'm not sure if amazon is the lowest on this.

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Themau
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Replied On: 07/30/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT
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at laksmi: yup as i said it starts around the 160bugs so yeah go for a decent 560 or 570 wich has more power and on power supplys buy always preferd good marks like corsair be quiete coolermaster cougar enermax etc but most importantly atleast a 600 watt min power supply and most important of all check for a 80 plus symbol white is lowest gold the highest thats a quality standard so go preferable always for those. at onchu same goes for u with the powersupplys also what mainboard are u going for also dont forgett to get rid of the crap stock cooler and get rid of the crap amd ;))just kidding ^^ ..just saw ur going for a complete one well seems alright bit expensive though for the items in it but i guess they need to earn abit aswell .

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Themau
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Replied On: 07/30/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT
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but i see that gpu=graphic card is already 2 years old hmm personaly i wouldnt recommend it atleast if it would be i wouldnt do it here s the spec i would get: i5 3570k 234.9bugs asrock z77extreme 4 139.9bugs corsiar 8 gigs 59.9 bugs coolermaster gx650 77.9 bugs wd hardrive 1tb 94 bugs dvd burner 25 bugs any graphic card i would go for 560 or 570 choose a gpu with minimum 2 fans and a case for around 100 bugs or depends on ur taste and voila ur still below the 1k and u have wayy stuff in it atleast i would for this way

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Themau
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Replied On: 07/30/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT
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also dont go for cheap shit on pieces u know u will only change them in 4-5 years so i would go for the next generation stuff since u dont want to pay cash for already outdated stuff wich survives maybe the next year games and after that ull need to go for medium settings.. baahhhh

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Mulch
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Replied On: 07/30/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT

This morning I actually worked out a shopping list from newegg, not so much that I need a new desktop, but that the new technology has dropped down to attractive price/performance to me. SSDs cheaper than $1/GB, new 22 nm quad cores for about $200, RAM's cheap, too. I found it interesting that the CPU I chose (i5-3570k) is mentioned in a couple posts above, too. I don't *think* I'll pull the trigger for the mobo & CPU just yet, but may spring for a SSD now, as I've been watching them while nursing a WD Velociraptor that's been making unhappy noises for a while now.

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Themau
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Replied On: 07/30/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT
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well if the gigabyte ammount is enough for u on a ssd well then go for it normaly u buy a ssd for windows and certain high priority games and the rest u install and second harddrive since u shouldnt fill it up completly but they might have fixed that issue by now so not that sure and yeah the 3570k is very good hav eone myself its abit hot headed though so u need to be sure that u have a good case if u overclock

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Starfire
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Replied On: 08/01/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT
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I'm feeling lazy, so I didn't read the whole thread. I looked over your initial secs. You have a core I7. That is a pretty good CPU, do you know if it is a quad core or dual core processor (without digging, I'm going to guess quad core). Either way, I don't think that piece needs to be upgraded. 8 gigs of ram is plenty in my opinion. I run 6, and at max settings the game is smooth. I would recommend upgrading your graphics card though. It is a little bit on the old end. Though newer than my current card (Raedeon 450 hd) I think. You could get a newer card for 200-250 or less...depending on what you want. I would not say anything less than Nvidia 5xx series of card. I would get 570, 580, or 590. Those would be the highest I would go for the price. If you want a cheaper card I would get a 4xx series Nvidia card, 470, 480, or 490. I bet you could fine one of those for around 100-200$. If you want an ATI card you could get one of the newer 6xxx series cards, though I haven't been following these too much so I don't know which I would suggest. Nvidia and ATI tend to do this thing where one is better than the other at any given time. But they are all pretty equal any way, so its all about how much you want to spend, how fast of a card you want and which company you prefer. I just ordered an VGA MSI|N570GTX TWIN FROZR II 1280M this week, the twin frozr II is a fan system developed by MsI (I guess) instead of using the stock single fan, they have a custom built Twin Frozr system (this one is Twin Frozr II, there is a version III available if you want the newer model.) Basically its two fans, to increase the air flow ultimately keeping the card much cooler than the stock fan. If you need more expert details on any given card, go to youtube and watch LinusTechTips videos for benchmarks, unboxings and all the information you will ever wan. He is very good at breaking it down in laymen terms too. (one of my favorite computer hardware reviewers out there). Good luck on your upgrades. Forgot to mention power supply. If you need to upgrade your PSU (power supply unit) you might want to consider the Corsair GS600 or better. If you don't have (I believe 450+) depending on the card specs you might not have enough power to run everything. The PSU I use is the Corsair GS600, its a 600 watt PSU, and is SLI certified so it will support cards in SLI mode, or one card with 2 6 pin ports. (this is important that you have the correct PSU to have enough power to go to the card, I ran into a problem last year where I thought I had a psu that was good enough so I didn't upgrade and it started giving problems to the board. 2 RMA's later and a new case and everything is solid again.

» Edited on: 2012-08-01 16:19:30

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Ish
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Replied On: 08/01/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT

I would say be very careful who you buy your pre-made PC from. IBUYPower and CyberPower are places I would not suggest. I have heard horror stories.

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Fine de na Capall
Vilde
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Replied On: 08/01/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT
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I'm in the midst of spec'ing a new desktop to build myself. I'd like to make a mini-itx gaming machine using the Silverstone FT03-Mini Silverstone FT03B-Mini in black. From the research I've done, it looked like i5 versus i7 is a moot point for gaming purposes (now toss in video editing, conversions, etc. and that's another story). For GPUs, I found this comparison (http://www.techspot.com/review/550-best-gaming-graphics-cards/) useful since it laid out the best bang for the buck current generation mid to high end GPUs. Finally, I'm going to try and put everything onto a 256 GB SSD (the few video files I have will be on an external HD hooked to my router for backup purposes anyways, music will be backed up there too since I use Google Music mainly). SSDs are not mandatory for gaming, but they improve (read: remove the hard drive as any kind of possible bottleneck) loading all of those textures. If you are interested, the build is looking something like this (don't want to hijack the thread) P.S. You might notice the PSU is a 450 W. Supposedly a lot of folks have built up this case with that PSU with Nvidia 680's and Sandy/Ivy Bridge with no power issues whatsoever. I found this chart helpful when trying to determine actual PSU needs based on just GPUs (http://www.eggxpert.com/forums/thread/493743.aspx). Good luck and let us know how things progress!

» Edited on: 2012-08-13 11:11:50

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Sinovhan
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Replied On: 08/01/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT

I can give you a horror story on ibuypower. My wife, Tearney - her computer we got from ibuypower. For the last year and a half approximately, it just randomly freezes. No pattern to it other than it's completely inconsistent. I finally gave up, we took it to a shop to see if they can figure it out - so far, they can't. They did say that some of the assembly was suspect that the fans were powered in a weird configuration and that those fans were the only ones that stopped when the computer freezes. Other than that, they used a horrible power supply apparently - but that wasn't the issue so far, all the hardware itself has checked out, computer has had fresh installs still nothing. It was one of the main reasons why we disappeared from gaming for awhile - couldn't afford at the time to purchase new parts for the computer, couldn't fix it. I will never buy from there again.

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JibbitsJr
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Replied On: 08/12/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT
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Hi Guys, I posted this on my upgrade thread. I thought I would add it to this one as well. I have been playing on Frankenstein pc’s for way too long. Just to give you an idea I have been gaming on an old Zotac Geforce 9500 since Rift launched. With this card I was running 28 fps in an unpopulated area in BWE3. The build I came up with is pretty solid, and will only require a second video card 2-3 years down the road. Hopefully by then the cards will be down to $100-$200. After all rebates, I got this bad chicken for $1010 with 12 months no payments or interest. You do have to use a Newegg preferred account for this special. Newegg normally requires a minimum monthly payment for their 6 month / 12month financing. However, about twice a year they run the no minimum monthly payment special. I believe this special runs through the 25th. Qty. Product Description Savings Total Price RAIDMAX Tornado ATX-238WU Black / Blue SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case Item #: N82E16811156223 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy $10.00 Mail-in Rebate $49.99 Western Digital Caviar Blue WD5000AAKX 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive Item #: N82E16822136769 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy Protect Your Investment (expand for options) Recover Your Data(expand for options) -$10.00 Instant $84.99 $74.99 GIGABYTE GV-N670WF2-2GD GeForce GTX 670 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card Item #: N82E16814125438 Return Policy: VGA Standard Return Policy Protect Your Investment (expand for options) $20.00 Mail-in Rebate Card $399.99 CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX750 V2 750W ATX12V v2.31/ EPS12V v2.92 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC High Performance Power ... Item #: N82E16817139021 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy -$30.00 Instant $20.00 Mail-in Rebate Card $139.99 $109.99 G.SKILL Sniper Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2133 (PC3 17000) Desktop Memory Model F3-17000CL11D-8GBSR Item #: N82E16820231519 Return Policy: Memory Standard Return Policy $55.99 BIOSTAR TZ77XE3 LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS Item #: N82E16813138355 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy Protect Your Investment (expand for options) -$15.00 Instant $15.00 Mail-in Rebate $139.99 $124.99 Intel Core i5-3550 Ivy Bridge 3.3GHz (3.7GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 2500 BX80637I53550 Item #: N82E16819116505 Return Policy: CPU Replacement Only Return Policy Protect Your Investment (expand for options) $209.99 Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit - OEM Item #: N82E16832116986 Return Policy: Software Standard Return Policy $99.99 Subtotal: $1,125.92 I hope this helps.

» Edited on: 2012-08-12 22:23:47

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Velad
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Replied On: 08/13/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT
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Whenever you need to figure out computer builds or what not, I highly recommend heading over to BuildAPC. You'll get some build critique, where to find deals on parts, etc. I also recommend avoiding pre-built PCs. Most of the time your overpaying for the computer, and sometimes they are built with low quality parts. It's not that difficult to build a PC. Just grab yourself a book on it, or a computer saavy buddy to guide you, and you'll be fine. Oh and PCPartPicker is where it's at.

» Edited on: 2012-08-13 06:38:34

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Caomhnoir de na Fhiaigh Corcra
Hex
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Replied On: 08/13/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT

GW2 runs really well on my pc, which is 2.5 years old. I was actually surprised how well it runs in wvw with no lag and only a slight framerate drop when there are a lot of players on the screen. For some reason the only place in the game in which I experience a large fps drop is Lion's Arch, but they seem to have fixed that last beta. I have i7 CPU 920@ 2.67 Ghz, 6gb of ram, and 2x nvidea geforce gtx295 cards.

» Edited on: 2012-08-13 15:17:25

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Keegan
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Replied On: 08/14/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT
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Thank you Shmi for the proverbial push out of the procrastination ditch. I just received my care package from Newegg today...weeeeeee! Inside was: MSI Z77A-GD65 mobo Intel I7 2600 CPU Crucial M4 128g SSD GSkill Ripjaw 8g(2x4g) DDR3 1600 Seagate Barracuda 3TB HDD I'm keeping my existing vid card which is a GTX460. They're not being made anymore, but I found someone who has one new for a decent price. I will then go SLI. I have a 850w PSU, so I think I'm good to go for a while now. I'll be a happy little builder this week. =0þ

» Edited on: 2012-08-14 15:55:59

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Caomhnoir de na Iomproidh Gorm
Mulch
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Replied On: 08/14/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT

Looks very nice recipe Paja

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JibbitsJr
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Replied On: 08/14/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT
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@ Paja Cheers. I am waiting on my case to get here. My internal goodies came today as well.

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ThuddenBluhndr
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Replied On: 08/14/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT
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I too succumbed to the overwhelming need to throw a bunch of money at Newegg for some sparkly electronic bits and a box to put them in. Mine will be in tomorrow or Thursday. The build I'm using: - Corsair Carbide Series 400R Mid Tower Gaming Case - Intel Core i7-3770K 3.5GHz - COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO CPU Cooler - ASRock Z77 Extreme4 ATX Intel Motherboard - G.SKILL Sniper Low Voltage Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3 SDRAM - MSI OC GeForce GTX 670 2GB - Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB Hard Drive - OCZ Vertex 4 64GB SATA III SSD (as a cache drive for Intel SRT) - LG DVD Burner - 3 extra 120mm Case Fans - PC Power and Cooling Silencer 910W 80PLUS Silver Power Supply - Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit I went a little crazy and spent more than I should have, but my poor 5 year old computer just wasn't cutting it. This will be my first home build, so wish me luck.

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Keegan
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Replied On: 08/14/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT
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Thanks. I almost bought the ivy bridge cpu, but the little voice of reason screamed in my ear. Atleast I have a board that will support it when the time comes. Dhonar, that looks like my list before I re-evaluated...4 times. =) Very nice. 1 piece of advice I wish to lend, take your time. Today, the hardest part of building is the actual installation of the components, and that isn't too difficult. Most of the guess work has been taken out of setup thanks to auto installers. I think this will be my 6th rig I've built for myself. I enjoy it. My only gripe is file transfers from older drives, but I think I'll network my old pc and use its drives as storage as well as my media pc. Have fun and good luck building folks.

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MikeyDee
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Replied On: 08/14/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT

So I work at HP and for Christmas / GW2 present to myself I'm working on getting this :P Base System: HP Z820 CPU: Intel® Xeon® E5-2670 I will use my ATI 5870 for now till the next gen comes out and get me 2 of nvidia PCIE3 cards. There is a new 660TI or something coming soon i may wait for that to drop in price to grab 2.

» Edited on: 2012-08-14 22:17:16

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Yankee
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Replied On: 08/19/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT

Just a note, if you are buying NVidia graphic cards, that the 500 series uses much more power then the new 600 series. A GTX 590 can suck down over 500 watts under load, versus something like a GTX 680 that will pull in the 300's. My preperations for GW2; I got so excited about playing that I bought a brand new GTX 690. Always wanted to try it so I bought a bunch of water cooling stuff and tore apart my 15 month old I7 computer build (that was working just fine). I took the brand new $1000 video card apart and added a water block to that and the CPU. I put it all together with some 180 MM fans...and held my breath. After a couple weeks of no leaks I have started to breath again. I have been working on computers for a living for 20 years but I was still nervous like this was my first build ever. I was quite impressed with the new temps, but the nicest thing was how much quieter the computer runs while gaming. Just about the time my wife and cat had stopped looking at me like I am crazy for playing with electronics and water, I found this awesome family and now am walking around trying to pronounce ancient Irish phrases. It is no wonder my wife says I am a 54 year old kid. Hard to wait for the 25 August head start.

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Keegan
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Replied On: 08/19/2012 at 10:48 AM PDT
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@Taibhse - I was reading that myself about the 500 series. I had it in my mind to buy 2 560ti's and just the other day I saw they released the 660's (I was giggling like a mad fool). I will have me 2 of the FTW's. On the water cooling subject, I was somewhat on the fence because of the fear of leaking but I wanted to see what the hype was all about so I took a baby step toward water cooling by purchasing the Antec Kühler H2O 620 for the cpu. It's maintenance free, totally enclosed system and so far it's doing a wonderful job at keeping my cpu at a comfy 34°C. If this works out I may purchase a larger system to facilitate the cooling of the gpu's as well. @MikeyDee - If the 660 series is anything like the 560's, you'll definitely get your moneys worth. The price is definitely right for me, but lower would be nice. Everyone says get a 670, 680 or a 690. I say...GIMME DA MONEY and I will. 500 - 1000 bucks is way too much for a gpu. Hell, I just built a new system that runs great for less than a 1000 bucks. 5 and a wakeup! wo0t!

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