RE: Marketplace Cost vs Reward Explaination

Hey guys, A lot of you have voiced concerns over reward for crafting goods on the marketplace. It seems many of you are having problems understanding how the whole thing works so I figure I'll shed some light and hopefully clear up the air.

First:

20 Contribution = 1 Family Vault Credit
20 Family Honor Points (Including Artisan Points) = 1 Family Vault Credit
1 Family Vault Credit = 100 Resources

Now the Marketplace / Contribution is set up with 2 goals in mind.

1. Getting people the crafted goods and materials they need as fast as possible and rewarding those who contribute for their efforts.
2. To check to make sure a member is willing to give to another member of the family even if it does not benefit themselves financially. Sacrifice is one of the traits we look for in a leader and members will not become leaders without a proven track record for sacrifice. Leading is about giving not taking.

Now item wise there will be some changes but likely Artisan Points will remain the same if not be reduced. Why you might ask? Lets look at the point structure for a moment:

Telara Saga typically brings in 300 - 400 Family Honor Points over 3 hours with 100 people participating in the conquest.

A Typical Tier 2 dungeon rewards players with 110 - 130 Family Honor Points for 1 to 3 hours of dungeon dwelling.

A "Spiritweave Bag" using Marketplace Requested materials takes all of a few seconds to make and rewards 150 Artisan Points and 150 Contribution which = 15 Family Vault Credit.

Let's break down the costs:

2 Endless Planar Dusts: 33 x 2 = 66 Resources
8 Bolts of Spiritweave: 132 x 8 = 1,056 Resources
Total: 1,122 Resources = 11.22 Family Vault Credits
Net Profit: 15 - 11.22 = 3 Family Vault Credits with 78 Resources Remaining

Now results may vary but im aiming at a 5 - 10% gain for your efforts. After all you are earning more Family Honor Points for a few minute item creation than a group does in most Tier 2 Dungeons. In fact augmented items bring in more points than a run through Greenscale Blight. Which is why I'm actually considering reducing the amount of Artisan Points given for making items.

» Edited on: 2011-07-07 14:36:27

Bump for exposure

I only c one problem with this Fog. Not everyone is gonna wanna wait for the Mats to get delivered AND spend the time to make the items with such a little gain. Which is the point i tried to explain to u in vent.

I'm working on a hybrid method that will work both ways. With a guild stockpile which I might add I fill orders several times a day as does lisa. I understand your concern however orders weren't getting filled in the other system as efficiantly as they are now. Every item I've done the math for nets to more fvc than you spend. So I don't know why the sudden concern. In many cases I've reduced the cost of things like dust and catalysts. Fact is if you can order 20 resources and then redonate them and net a profit then the system is jacked. Whatever the cost the contribution must be less than that. 20 contribution =1 fvc so if an item cost 1 fvc its value must be less than 20 contribution.

I love the guild Market System. I use it a lot. (Sorry been not playing for a while). And typically delivery is very fast. Only ever had to wait on a few items.

Not a big deal but that spiritweave bag also takes 2 minor catalyst to make as well, just letting you know for your analysis. (also its eternal planar dust not enduring just fyi) and heck if I get my hands on some minor cats .. I can knock out a few more of those bag requests. (will try to get some on friday crafting rifts with Rshiel and Berga)

» Edited on: 2011-07-14 08:55:21

» Edited on: 2011-07-14 08:59:41

I guess as a crafter - I feel that my contribution is not just in the 4 seconds it takes to make in item - but that I put in weeks of gathering, crafting, spending plat leveling my craft to 300. Not to mention the endless dailies to get the rarer recipes, days and days farming rifts for mats etc. Those who don't craft - do not understand - half my game time every time I logged in was spent leveling my craft - while others pushed rapidly to 50. It may only take one second to make - but I put in weeks of my time developing my craft. Why not reward that?

I am sure Ben stated this but it perhaps needs to be restated. The primary reward for crafting something for another guild member is the gratitude you receive from that person and the great feeling you get knowing that you were able to help someone out with your skills. The fact that you get vault credits, honor points, and contribution for it should be seen as secondary. If viewed from that perspective, I think we can all agree that the compensation for your efforts is very fair. If your sole reason for making goods or supplying materials is to accumulate as many points as possible, I'm afraid that you're missing the point of this system. It should also be noted in general that our guild advancement system requires more sacrifice and rewards less gain as you gain ranks. I do not believe that is by coincidence. Ben has preached over and over again that in order to advance in our guild, you must be willing to give without expectation for reward.

I have always given much more than I have ever taken in any guild I have ever been in, and do not plan to change my MO in this guild. My comments were based soley on Ben's comparison that a crafter putting 4 seconds into making an item gets as much reward as someone who spends hours in a raid or dungeon. My point was, in my humble opinion, saying this belittles the crafters effort. In order for them to get to the point where they could make that item in 4 seconds - they spent weeks and weeks gathering, doing dailies, and crafting to get there. I spend more time gathering, doing dailies, and making stuff for others than I do playing my toons through dungeons, etc. I make many things for folks without ever going throught the website - as well as hand out tons of materials - without asking for any reward at all. I am not alone in this - many of us do it. So please don't imply that just because we ask for a bit of recognition occsionally for our time and effort - that we are reward grubbing seekers of glory. It's insulting

» Edited on: 2011-07-15 16:25:52

Mira, I understand just what it takes to be a crafter, I have leveled up a 300 Outfitter, Runecrafter, and Armorsmith and kick out stuff for people every week as I can. If your telling me that making 1 Spiritweave Bag is in fact on par with a full Greenscale run start to Finnish them we can talk. Right now they are about the same point value for family honor points in the Artisan tree. There are some items worth more than a Greenscale Run. Please point out to me WHO is exactly hurting for family vault credits here? As far as I know there are only a handful of people in the whole family sitting at 0. In fact Glynt is the only Lorgair or higher who has less than 25 FVC's burning a hole in their pocket. Most who are over Saighdear have Hundreds. As I said if anything the prices for things should INCREASE. Right now there are way more FVC on the market than there is stuff to use them on. Regarding Contribution Points, donate the augments, regents, and random crafting stuff you pick up and cant use. Bam you've got more than enough to get a rank in the family. Regarding your hours collecting materials, why not request them on the marketplace? We are stockpiling them for a reason you know. I try to keep 300 on hand at all times. At this time I don't have the time to spend rebuilding the way the system works. I've only got my daughter here 1 more week for this whole year and have 2 really big projects that my life depends on... LITERALLY. I can't blow my time working on a site that doesn't pay bills, doesn't relieve stress, and doesn't keep food in my daughters mouth. I'm sorry I just cant. Fog

Ok, I was of the same sort of thinking Mira until Ben and I had a long, and heated ;), discussion of this. I do not spend a lot of time harvesting. I have a 300 outfitter and butcher. that's it. I'm not a crafting fanatic and did these mostly for the bags for us. So I usually have to buy some mats from the AH to make somethign special. So why would I think give away an item I spent 12-14pp to make? Ahhh... here is the thing. You don't HAVE to spend time gathering all those special items for the special recipes. Get them from the guild! So now I order, for example, minor catalysts and eternal planar dusts from the GUILD. I didn't spend any time gathering those so it't not a gathering issue. I then use THOSE items to craft something special with them.. like Masks of the Hunter (epic recipe). THOSE masks I now donate back to the guild in their completed form for people to request. I;ve lost no time to gathering, it's cost me nothing to buy them other than my own points and when I craft the masks and give them back to the guild, I get more than it cost me to get the mats themselves. Guildies get items they would have had to fork out big plat over otherwise and I get to do something to help out a guildie. So you see.... if you utitilze the WHOLE system and not just part of it then it works for everyone concerned.