Vampiresbane's WvWvW Profession Importance Theorycrafting Session

Like many of you pvp’ers out there, I am foaming at the mouth waiting for good, heart pounding battlefield pvp and consequently Guild Wars 2 (GW2). There’s some information on how Realm fighting will work (aka WvWvW), but not a ton. When faced with a lack of information, one must inevitably theorycraft! Granted there will be assumptions abound so take all of this with a grain of salt, but I’ll base as much of this on what Arenanet has actually stated. So let the theorycrafting begin!

Two main things have to be taken in consideration for WvWvW: #1 There will be no healing class in GW2. #2 Assuming taking keeps will give realms the most control/points, the ability to take keeps will be extremely important. Arenanet has mentioned that you can fight guerrilla type wars, attacking farms, smiths, etc with smaller forces in order to either strengthen your keep guards or make the opposing side’s weaker, but ultimately you’ll find yourself fighting at the keep and whoever does this best will be the better realm. Keep fighting in most pvp games (DAOC, Warhammer, etc) usually has defenders (smaller group, but better height/defense advantages) and attackers (larger group, but inferior position) which makes staying alive while killing the other side incredibly important no matter which side you find yourself on. To further discuss keep fighting and how it applies to each profession, I’ll break it down into two overall goals: living (health regen, damage avoidance, damage prevention) and killing (crowd control, area of effect, pulls) and what professions can do what.


LIVING:
Every player will have a self heal, but since that will probably have a cooldown, none of us will be able to rely on it exclusively. Players will also be able to revive themselves and others as long as they’re just unconscious, but as far as I know there are no resurrection spells. Dead is dead. As a result, health regen abilities, damage avoidance, and group damage prevention will incredibly important while either attacking or defending a keep.


HEALTH REGENERATION:
Guardians with the Resolve virtue can use their Resolve skill and apply regeneration to all nearby allies.

Necromancers will probably have self heal spells (ie Taste of Death which self heals when sacrificing a minion or the ability to use Life Force as a secondary health bar through Death Shroud), but what will be most important in Keep fights is any group health regen abilities they may have. Arenanet has mentioned two. “Well of Blood, for example, applies a regeneration boon to all allies within it” and “…Mark of Blood damages enemies while placing a regeneration boon on nearby allies.” So necromancers with these abilities will be badly needed.

Arenanet discusses that water attuned elementalists will provide continuous healing to nearby allies, but it’s unknown whether this is a usable skill or continuous aura.

Other possibilities:
Guardians may have a health regen Symbol. “The guardian places symbols on the ground…(to) deliver a benefit to allies.”
Ranger may have a health regen Spirit. “A spirit skill summons a nature spirit that influences the area around it.”
Warriors may have a health regen shout. Their banners might also do this, but it sounds like banners may only “buff his allies with attack power” not health regen.


DAMAGE AVOIDANCE (personal):
It’s assumed all classes will have a basic dodge while others such as the thief or warrior will get class specific ones. Other ways to avoid personal damage are:

Guardian have the Aegis which is a removable boon that blocks the next attack. In addition, it looks like Guardians have an attacking teleport ability that moves them to a target they’re attacking. This could be used to evade one enemy’s attacks and move to a weaker (and safer) enemy.

Thief will have a variety of shadow step moves to go in and out of stealth which makes targeting them much harder even though they can still be damaged. One specific trap, Shadow Trap, will also help put the Thief into Stealth. The Thief also has the Shadow Shot ability which allows them to teleport to an enemy they’re attacking. This, like the Guardians similar ability, could allow the Thief to avoid damage from one enemy while attacking a weaker one.

Rangers have a personal deflection ability called Whirling Defense which causes attacks to deflect back at their attackers.

Warriors have Shield Stance which blocks flame cone attacks. This may also block other attacks. They also have a charge ability like the Thief and Guardian, but it doesn’t seem to allow them to charge very large distances.

Earth attuned Elementalists have additional magical protection, but all Elementalist can have signets that provide protection such as the Signet of Earth, which “has increased damage resistance.”


DAMAGE PREVENTION (group):

So far the Guardian has two group damage preventing moves: shield of absorption (absorbs spells) and wall of deflection (deflects single target attacks back at the attacker). Both appear to protect allies in the immediate area around the guardian. It’s unknown if these will work against area of effect attacks as well. Further, if the Guardian activates their Aegis, the block buff will be given to all nearby allies while disabling the Guardian’s Courage.

Elementalist that attune to Earth will be able to use “the ground under her feet to defend herself and her allies, turning flesh to stone…”

Other possibilities:
It’s entirely possible that warriors will also get some type of group deflection or protection like Guardians. It may not work against spells, but possibly physical attacks such as arrows and the like.


KILLING:

CROWD CONTROL (CC):
Anything and everything that prevents the enemy from inflicting damage on you.

Guardian has a single target knockback (or possibly anyone with a 2h hammer) and a spirit weapon: hammer of wisdom that can do a knockdown as well as wards which mark an area on the ground that stops enemies from passing through.

Thieves will have a variety of traps, some of which will probably have crowd control abilities.

Necromancers’ Doom spell will “instill fear in a single target,” but it’s not out of the realm of possibilities that Necromancers will also have a group fear.

Rangers will also have a variety of traps like the thief. One in particular, the “Spike Trap will cripple …enemies that pass through it.”

Warriors, along with the stuns provided by being a Hammer (aoe stun) or Mace (single target stun) Warriors, have the Stomp ability that launches the warrior at a group of enemies and stuns them initially.

Water attuned Elementalist, choosing cc over damage, will be able to control the opponent’s movement. For instance, they can create “slippery ice or (freeze) foes solid.” Earth attuned Elementalists can do aoe knockdowns/stuns or “destabilize foes with seismic shocks.” Elementalists can also use some signets for cc abilities such as using the Signet of Earth to stun nearby enemies. It looks like either all elementalists or specifically air attuned Elementalists can use a spell called Static Field that roots enemies in place for a short period of time.

Other possibilities:
Necromancer’s Grasping Death might slow enemies, but it looks like it may just be a damaging spell.


AREA OF EFFECT (AOE):
Granted killing is killing, but aoe tends to reign supreme in keep defense, especially if you’re outnumbered significantly. It, along with good cc, is what makes a small force still very dangerous to a large enemy force. I’m going to further separate AOE into two subcategories, one for close quarters aoe and range AOE.

Up, close, and personal AOE:
Necromancers seem to have a few close aoe spells both seen in the locust swarm video. One is a large radius pure damage spell and the other, Locust Swarm, creates a damage shield on the Necromancer that hurts enemies that come into contact with it.

Warrior can cause aoe damage if they choose to use a Greatsword to “deliver sweeping area effect damage while gliding around the battlefield.”

Air attuned elementalists have a close quarters damage ability that “continuously pelt(s) (enemies) with lightning strikes.” It’s unknown, however, if this causes a significant amount of damage. Another possible up close and personal spell is churning earth (this might just be earth attuned Elementalists).

Range AOE:
The thief has a few traps that can cause aoe damage, but they must be placed first. More importantly, the thief can use a variety of arrow aoe attacks such as cluster shot.

Necromancers can use putrid explosion (minion death aoe) and grasping death (cone aoe) to cause aoe damage.

The Ranger has a lot of aoe attack moves such as barrage (range aoe) and spread shot (cone aoe) to cause damage to enemies from afar. The Ranger, like the Thief, also has traps that may cause aoe damage.

Warriors also have range aoe abilities if they choose to use a longbow to use abilities like arcing shot.

Fire elementalists will probably be the kings of ranged aoe. They’ll be able to “inflict scorching damage on multiple enemies by turning the ground to fire or raining down molten rock from the skies.”

Other possibilities:
Guardians can use their spirit weapons to cause range damage and possibly range aoe damage though this will make the spirit weapon vanish.


PULLS:
Thief has scorpion wire which can pull a single enemy to them. It’s unknown if this will work over keep walls, but you never know (Warhammer had a similar move with the dreaded marauder pull.)

Other possibilities:
Warriors may also get a pull, but it might be exclusive to thieves.


» Edited on: 2011-06-06 14:45:03

There's no healing class in GW2? Is the confirmed and set in stone? There seem to still be 2-5 unrevealed classes on the professions page. I'm not sure how alot of the combat system works because I'm trying to not spoil it and get hyped up yet. But I plan on being a Hunter or Thief JUST for the traps. Hopefully there will be some form of talent or specialization system where I can spec purely into a trapping build.

I'm fairly certain there's no healing classes, not that there's no healing. It should make being healed and healing harder to do though. Keep in mind the game isn't out yet (obviously) and that many things can change, but as of right now, there's no healing class. This is from Guild Wars 2 wiki (which references itself): "In two official blog postings, designers stated that the traditional MMORPG role for a backline "healer" class will be superseded with support mechanics that encourage or require direct involvement in combat. While one of these designers did confirm that players can fill up the majority of their skill bars with support skills, he asserted that these skills would require "judicious application", even while healing. Furthermore, heals that affect allies are said to be much weaker than a player's "self heal"." As far as heals in general are concerned, there's the health regeneration abilities that I stated above, everyone gets a self heal, and I think one of the human racial skills is an additional heal. As far as I know there is NOT a direct heal from one player to another, besides the health regeneration abilities. EDIT1: I also should add (I briefly mentioned it above) that no class has a resurrection skill or ability. How health, damage, death works from the videos I've seen so far is as follows: you take regular damage while conscious, you get knocked out, you can try regaining consciousness (nicknamed "down state" = unconscious), but once you take more damage (not sure of the amount) while in the downed state, you're completely dead and have to release (unless someone else is still alive and then they can try to res you). EDIT2: Another player can actually still help you regain unconsciousness even if you've been completely knocked out. Changed my first edit accordingly.

» Edited on: 2011-05-18 11:16:04

I LOVE THIS GAME ALREADY Theory: No spec system, but instead, something dynamic, that can be changed on the fly. Something that takes a while to change, longer than a 1 on 1 fight, but less than a 10 minute travel across a zone. Some form of stealth for the Ranger, at the cost of a pet. Not as strong as the thief stealth but something that has a decent length, maybe 10 seconds? THE ABILITY TO PLAY THE RANGER EFFECTIVELY WITHOUT USING A PET. I for one, and im sure many other people, hate having a pet and would much rather have slightly better or more diverse skills at the cost of a pet.

» Edited on: 2011-05-17 16:33:10

They want everyone to be responsible for their own game play and not have to wait around for hours to find a 'tank', 'healer', or 'dps' class, or have the typical 'we have a fail healer, that's why we died' excuse. They also don't want to limit people on what they play, which is a real issue for Iso and I. One of us always ends up having to play a healer, and some games, that's just not fun. On the subject of healing, I believe they also mentioned the use of timer limited potions would be in GW2 as well.(May not be remembering correctly on this one however.) From what I understand, some classes wont be limited to the cookie cutter mold as Vamiresbane mentioned. Such as ranged warriors, or melee rangers for example. Seeing as skills are based on the weapons you choose to use, a person can play how they want, and still be effective in their role to a group. It's going to be fun thinking outside the box and not being punished for it.

» Edited on: 2011-05-17 17:16:30

» Edited on: 2011-05-17 17:17:31

Err... You know I'm gonna roll a Ranger... heh heh... What Vampiresbane said about healers having "direct involvement in combat" sounds a lot like a Warhammer Warrior-Priest (since they have to fight to charge up their healing).

Just remember no one profession will be a "healer." A lot of professions will be able to do some health regens, but none will be able to do direct heals on other players.

I don't think anything is going to match Guardians for team support, positioning and keep pushing/defending. Guardians can put down domes that deflect projectiles. +1 for defense. They can put down a ring that no enemy can pass through. Oh you just broke down the keep door? Let me lock you out of it so that my team can AOE melt your face. Because of the no healers they will be amazing group support with all their regen. From what I've heard necromancer will also be an amazing support class if chosen to play that way.

And they just released the Engineer class... So close now, one more class to be announced.

Rangers without pets..I wanna DAOC Scout class. Sounds like I can come close(if not better) in this game.

I think the no healer thing is one of the most interesting things they have tried. Traditional MMO team play revolves giving people a role to play in the trinity and team work flows naturally from there i.e. I'll keep you alive, as long as you kill everything for me and vice versa. In GW2 it seems like they instead intend to generate teamwork by allowing spells and abilities to interact with each other i.e. mage casts a wall of fire to keep the enemy at bay while the ranger shoots his arrows through it turning them into fire arrows. Its combos like that that have me excited for team play. Lets hope they pull it off!

OMFG Engineer looks AWESOME! I'm going to be one of those. Tons of Crowd Control, Turrets, mines, and guns.

» Edited on: 2011-05-19 12:30:44

Raannggeeer, favorite class..although I hate pets and traps but mehhh oh well... And i really like the idea of no healer class, I just hope they do this right and dont make it so keep fights last like 30 seconds and then everyone dies... Who Thinks Gaiscioch are going to own the server we role on? MEeee

Thinking about the mage fire wall that creates burning arrows... I wonder if there will be a mage water =something= that players can interact with their own skills for more self healing at their option.