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Druid Reveal

Tiarna de na Griobhta Donn
Nikodemus
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Posted On: 09/29/2015 at 11:26 AM
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Ohhh, I can haz full healer class in GW2?  Sign me up!  Now I just have to level up my Ranger....

 

What do people think about the mention that things are changing with raids, RE: Berserker meta?

Last Edited on: 09/29/2015 at 02:03 PM
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Caomhnoir de na Aracos
PuaHone
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Replied On: 09/29/2015 at 08:23 PM PDT
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I believe the so called zerker meta will continue into the expansion.  Speed clear groups will continue to use the zerker builds with the current 5 player dungeons and if the expansion introduces new 5-player dungeons, then these will see zerker builds. 

E lawe i ka manawa e hanu i na pua loke. Take the time to smell the roses.
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Morigana
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Replied On: 09/29/2015 at 10:15 PM PDT

Well, according to th evideo - zerker builds won't be working the same as they find it boring and so do most of the players.  Personally I also find zerking boring and hope they do change it so that the healer is needed.  I'm going to try and be a healer, but have never done it before so this will be interesting to me and probably painful for any group I'm in for awhile :)

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Tiarna de na Griobhta Donn
Nikodemus
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Replied On: 09/30/2015 at 09:50 AM PDT
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Another big thing they talked about in the slew of released videos are the upcoming 10-man raids.  I suspect that and the revamped Fractals are where you will see the changes to the zerker meta to begin with, assuming that happens. I'm not sure if it was this video or another, but there was mention that at the beginning, healers will propably see more usefulness in RVR, as opposed to PVE. 

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Morigana
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Replied On: 09/30/2015 at 07:31 PM PDT

Yeah - according to this video they created the healer because it "will be needed" in PvE and PvP - which hopefully this means tactics will be required... I love tactical combat - otherwise I get bored with the game.  I'm not about "stuff" or loot - I'm about challenge. 

Many of my favorite fights were in Warhammer OL in T3 with Fog shouting commands to keep us focused on targets - lasting 20-30 mins of what some might have viewed as chaos - but it was actually very ordered - and surviving overwhelming odds to either take or defend a keep. I miss that... I want that again.

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Caomhnoir de na Fhiaigh
Skotos
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Replied On: 10/01/2015 at 04:50 AM PDT

If it changes to "need" a healer to do content then there is nothing keeping me from playing any other MMO.  I liked that fact that no class is needed to accomplish any content, that is what has kept me playing.

 

It will sadden me if this is the way the game is going.

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Laoch de na Iolair Dearg
Lakshmi
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Replied On: 10/01/2015 at 07:34 AM PDT
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Skotos we haven't seen any in-game indication that a dedicated healer will be a requirement in WvW, PvP, Dungeons, fractals, etc.  Some group healing can help, but we've had that since day one.  But a fully dedicated healer?  Folks have tried it and usually it just slows the group down, because you lose so much dps and utility for much more healing than is needed.

I think a dedicated healer may have a niche in the new 10 man raids.  Or *certain* 10 man raids.  But it's hardly the kind of issue we've seen in past games where you were stuck waiting around for a tank or healer for all content.

I'll admit the video said that, but I still don't see it as a requirement outside of raids.  For example, folks point to the difficulty of the mobs in Verdant Brink but they truly aren't hard once you learn their moves and learn yourself to dodge, evade, etc.  I think there are some people who prefer to use healing in place of active combat and learning the enemies' moves.  Their choice, but it's not the only way.



» Edited on: 2015-10-01 07:39:53

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Tiarna de na Griobhta Donn
Nikodemus
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Replied On: 10/01/2015 at 07:50 AM PDT
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The problem is that the current Zerker meta cuts the other way.  You cannot choose to play whatever you would like (in high end content), If I choose to play a Healer, CC or Tank in a dungeon run, I'm pretty likely to be asked to switch to an optimal build or kicked out of the group for playing sub-optimally.  It would be nice if roles other than sustained DPS were useful in a group.

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Lakshmi
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Replied On: 10/01/2015 at 08:32 AM PDT
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Yep, I understand.   The zerker meta is with us because the current content is just not challenging enough to require much teamwork.  Specialized roles like tank-only, healer-only, CC-only just aren't needed, and it really is faster to just DPS through it.  Add the fact the people are lazy, impatient and greedy and we get the "blaze through it fast" meta.

I'm hopeful that some of the new HoT content will be challenging enough to give role specialization a chance.  Maybe fractals 50-100, raids?  Even better: do that content with friends who are being flexible to try some off-meta party comps and strats.

 

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Morigana
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Replied On: 10/03/2015 at 10:23 PM PDT

"The problem is that the current Zerker meta cuts the other way." Nikodemus

"The zerker meta is with us because the current content is just not challenging enough to require much teamwork"  Lakshmi

...and this is exactly why don't like doing any of those events - there is basically no strategy required - and exactly why I quit Rift.  It was all about all out DPS without regard to strategy.  If they don't change something I might still play GW2 since it is free, but it will probably be mostly solo with a druid.  I've played the new build and it is a combo healer/damage dealer since while you are healing you are also doing damage and it works great in PvE with a tanky pet.  Sort of reminds me of the Chloromaster (or whatever she was called in Rift) but with a pet.

As I stated before, if I don't have to have need at least a medium degree of strategy to overcome an encounter, I will get bored.  I hope GW2 changes it some so that a healer might not be totally required, but be quite useful and therefore wanted.  I don't even normally play a healer - but I will if it makes me think more than I do now.  I use games as mental exercise - right now the gym in GW2 isn't making me sweat. ;)

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Laoch de na Iolair Dearg
Lakshmi
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Replied On: 10/04/2015 at 06:06 AM PDT
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So I watched part of a video from a group who gotta into the raid over the weekend.  I don't want to spoil the raid for myself, but from the little I watched I can say that they had a dedicated healer (druid) and Jalis/Shiro guy (sometimes tank/often DPS) for the encounter they showed.  Also some folks were assigned to deal with specific encounter mechanics.  It really did look like a normal raid encounter, so I guess I've been too pessimistic about needed roles in raids.  It looked like they had to coordinate a ton just to stay alive!

One the other hand, reading the comments they talked about gearing quite offensively (nearly zerker), and instead relied on position, dodge, evade, block and invul (plus one dedicated healer and the sometimes tank) for defense.  They coordinated finishing fields to bring in damage types that were needed in particular phases.  They really were coordinated and skilled enough to pull it off even in offensive stats.

But I think the SKILL is much more the point than the stats.  If there was a meta that measured ability to consistently avoid damage by positioning, dodge, evade, block, invul PLUS the ability to finish fields with the timing and effects needed by the raid, I doubt I could argue with that.  

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Caomhnoir de na Ulchabhan Buí
LordMelchom
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Replied On: 10/04/2015 at 02:12 PM PDT
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as I stated before, if I don't have to have need at least a medium degree of strategy to overcome an encounter, I will get bored.  I hope GW2 changes it some so that a healer might not be totally required, but be quite useful and therefore wanted.  I don't even normally play a healer - but I will if it makes me think more than I do now.  I use games as mental exercise - right now the gym in GW2 isn't making me sweat. ;) - Morigana 

Well That is how if eel about guild wars 2 Right now and with the expansion. It does not offer me any challenge at all and the raids wont really cut it because..lets face it..The dungeons in this game are too easy and not challenging  and I am not expecting the raid to be any better even if they say its challenging content . I mean lets not forget the rewards have no meaning as legendary armor will have the same stats as Exotic.. So why would I do a Raid..if the armor is going to be the same as non raid gear ( I understand that legendary weapons do not have better stats than non legendary, I could be wrong..But it seems that way since all exotic armor has the same stats pretty much )

The problem is guild wars 2 content is that.. Without the trinity of a healer, Tank and dps..what you have is content that does not challenge you. you fight a world boss and their is no ch allege to it at all..Bosses in dungeon are not challenge at all. I want a boss that will defeat me until learn what it does.. until I learn its secrets and then i want it to quickly adopt to something new and defeat me again. No boss in guild wars 2 does that. And I do not see how adding a overpower Druid to the mix is going to help that ( some people say its overpowered and I tend to believe them, But i could be wrong. 

As for zerker meta

Any type of meta I love to challenge it and I have done so in other games. To me When someone says its the meta.. I think of it as some elite person or group who laying down the law saying this is the only way that it can be done and if you do not use this way you cant be successful or join groups etc. And For me I like to challenge that person thinking and show them that it can be done without the meta being used. For me Meta is meant to be ch alleged at every chance. Something that is meta is something that has to be challenged and tested. 

long story short- Always challenge the meta and have courage to do so and find others that will also challenge it. I have done it..and will always do it..For I for one hate being told that this way is the only way this will work in a dungeon. No it is not the only way it will work and i will prove it to you.

maybe i am wrong..But as some people have told me.. Guild wars 2 is meant for casual players not those that want a challenge in them. ( For me a challenge is something that will make me think and adopt and try new things out ) 

The people who influence you are the people who believe in you. Henry Drummond
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Morigana
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Replied On: 10/04/2015 at 07:30 PM PDT

I use to use games to relax from the complexities of my job, but now I do really need the mental challenge.

The great thing about playing with the family is they will let me play any old way I like and "put up with me" as I dabble with different builds.  I typically play an engy as they are the most fun to me, because I have the most challenge with them swapping from dps to healing and a few things in between.  I'm not sure the Druid is OP and it hasn't been released yet but at least I had fun with her in the beta so I will play her at least for a while at release.  I started a brand new ranger just to make a Druid and in using one scroll to get her to 20 she has made it to 48 in just 1 week - too simple really. I just think a druid should be a Norn or maybe a Sylvari - so I made a new Norn. 

Safe Journey all.

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Caomhnoir de na Aracos
PuaHone
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Replied On: 10/04/2015 at 07:44 PM PDT
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This is why I enjoy spvp.   Each match is different and unique.  In one match, I'm going up against two thieves, a warrior, a guardian, and a necromancer.  In the next match, I may face a mesmer, engineer, ranger, and two eles.  I have to size up the builds of my opponents to determine how to beat them or whether I should avoid a specific opponent.  During the course of a match, you are constantly making decisions on where to rotate.  If I am respawning, should I head to home, decap far or go to mid to help my teammates?

Because I soloQ, my teammates are always different so this adds to the variety.  I must decide how can I best work with my team so we can win the match.  With the expansion introducing new elite specializations this will increase the challenge by requiring that I learn the skills of these elites.  

If the dungeons are too easy,  I suggest spvp as an alternative.

 

E lawe i ka manawa e hanu i na pua loke. Take the time to smell the roses.
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Caomhnoir de na Aracos
PuaHone
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Replied On: 10/06/2015 at 03:54 PM PDT
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From the GW2 forums:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

There’ll be more supportive damage for Celestial Avatar by launch… possibly from trait modifications or from skill changes.

An issue which should not be decoupled here is that Celestial Avatar felt gated behind staff use (and troll unguent), which left a ranger with one damage-focused weapon option and one support weapon. I’m making some changes to astral force rate gain to try to address this. Ideally it should be possible to build up your astral force without -needing- to run staff, but running staff should speed up the process by nature of the heals it provides. This would yield the option of running two non-staff weapons while still having Celestial Avatar available.

Celestial Avatar healing is the best available by a decent margin right now. One issue that came up is that the healing coefficients are so insignificant that running with healing stats yields very little reward.

The best healing in the game being available without using any healing power; this is not good for the game.

The berserker meta not be the only consideration requires that other stat combinations be rewarding.

Being able to run two more damage-focused weapons (if that’s your thing) and still have Celestial Avatar available should address some of your offensive concerns if you want to play a bit more offensively as a hybrid. If you want to focus on being the top offense then you probably shouldn’t be selecting the Druid specialization.

That’s all I’m going to say on the subject for now (though I will continue to read constructive feedback here and elsewhere) as there is plenty to be done in order to address these and other issues. /me ducks back to work on Scrapper and Druid.

 

******

I see the Druid specialization as only being useful in raids.  Going as a Druid in spvp means you likely will be focused on and immediately killed in Celestial Avatar form when you have very little defense.  Using the staff as a Druid means you are not doing much damage and with inadequate defense there is no way you can hold a node.  The D/D ele or bunker guardian will still perform this role better than a Druid ranger.  

The Druid Glyph skills are mediocre in comparison with existing ranger utility and Elite skills.  I would not give up Signet of Stone, Lightning Relfexes, Strength of the Pack or Entangle for any of the Druid Glyphs.

Maybe with changes to the traits and glyphs, the Druid will be useful in WvW.  As I stated above, the existing ranger utility and elites are superior to the Druid glyphs.  Glyph of Empowerment may have some use.  The elite Glyph of Unity did not seem to be working when I did the beta test because I never saw any targets being tethered.

The Druid needs work so hopefully ArenaNet schedules another beta test before the expansion launches.

E lawe i ka manawa e hanu i na pua loke. Take the time to smell the roses.
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Caomhnoir de na Ulchabhan Donn
Gaspara112
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Replied On: 10/07/2015 at 06:26 AM PDT
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LordMelchom, I highly suggest you look up the first raid encounter that some were able to try during the last beta weekend. It shows all the challenge that I have seen in raiding in any other game, so unless you felt all raiding is too easy, it should not be too easy.

 

PuaHome, you should look at the amount of control that is lumped into the Druid. The combination of control and insane healing may allow them to bunker on the level or Guardian, but it will never have the damage/survival combination of D/D ele in its current form.

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Caomhnoir de na Aracos
PuaHone
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Replied On: 10/10/2015 at 02:38 PM PDT
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Right now the LB/GS ranger is in a very good position in spvp.  Everything will change October 23 with the release of the expansion and the new elite specializations.

If you take the Druid specialization and a staff, which weapon do you give up?  If you drop the longbow, then you give up your longest range weapon with the Rapid Fire burst.  If you give up the greatsword, how do you deal with the thief or warrior who gets in your face?  If Anet comes through and changes how astral force is built up, then maybe rangers can take the Druid specialization and continue using a longbow and greatsword.  This would help ranger hold nodes on the conquest maps.



» Edited on: 2015-10-10 14:41:13

E lawe i ka manawa e hanu i na pua loke. Take the time to smell the roses.
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Laoch de na Ulchabhan Buí
Sekkerhund
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Replied On: 10/10/2015 at 04:11 PM PDT
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Test stuff out, the Beta toons have been active for the past week.  Speculating what happens in dungeons, WvW or sPvP after HoT goes live, is a bit pointless at this time.

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Morigana
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Replied On: 10/10/2015 at 11:33 PM PDT

I am an odd duck - that's a warning....

I don't use GS or LB on my Ranger and didn't use it during my Beta Test of the Druid either.  You'll usually see me running around with an axe/horn and SB and in Beta I was using Staff, Axe/horn and having fun.  I'm only about having fun  if I enjoy it then I don't mind dying - dying is a lost art.   But I'll probably run the Druid mainly in PvE stuff and bring my Necro (as a Reaper) back to WvW, but I'll see the Druid in WvW might surprise me. 

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Caomhnoir de na Aracos
PuaHone
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  • GW2: monk seal.8079
Replied On: 10/12/2015 at 12:59 PM PDT
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Morigana

When the release comes out, you may want to look at taking Primal Echoes as your major adept trait and Ancient Seeds as the grandmaster trait for WvW if you are going to play Druid.   Put a sigil of hydromancy on the staff to set off Ancient Seeds using Primal Echoes.  Consider using Sword/Warhorn instead of Axe/Warhorn because the sword does better damage and has evades.

If you will be doing spvp, the Celestial Shadow major master trait looks promising.  Teams are using stealth to facilitate rezzing of downed teammates.  Maybe we will see more of that in WvW.

 

 



» Edited on: 2015-10-12 14:23:50

E lawe i ka manawa e hanu i na pua loke. Take the time to smell the roses.
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Morigana
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Replied On: 10/13/2015 at 05:00 PM PDT

Nice thoughts - shall give that a look - will start playing with sword now to get use to it - just in case.

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Caomhnoir de na Aracos
PuaHone
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Replied On: 10/28/2015 at 03:35 AM PDT
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Found this spvp Druid build in the GW2 forums.

http://de.gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAW8fnUqANsgFsCWsCctglOBD+lOTzpOBuAQh7pFk4WYl8s0A-TpBFwAKOIAEeAALOCAt2fAaZAAXAAA

 

In the two matches I played, I was able to keep three opposing players occupied on the nodes.  With this build you have very good self healing and swiftness. The Resounding Timbre trait in Beastmastery reduces the recharge time on shouts Heal as One and Strength of the Pack.  The sword provides evades and mobility making it difficult for opponents to hit you. Using sword skill 2 and staff skill 3 gets you around the map very quickly.

The build generates might by swapping pets (Zephyr's Speed trait in Beastmastery) and using Heal as One and Strength of the Pack.  Swap to the Smokescale, use the pet's F2, then Heal as One.  Use Strength of the Pack then Bristleback's F2.

The glyphs are for condi removal and stun break.  The Druid trait Verdant Etchings plants a seed  which removes conditions.

The torch provides a fire field which can be blasted by staff skill 3 and also does good damage on downed players.

With the air and blood sigils, the staff does good damage.  I'll experiment with different sigils maybe replace the geomancy one on the sword/torch weapon set with hydromancy.    Try out the new tiger and wyvern pets.

Druid definitely looks promising for spvp.

 

 

 

E lawe i ka manawa e hanu i na pua loke. Take the time to smell the roses.
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Lakshmi
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Replied On: 10/28/2015 at 06:33 AM PDT
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Ohh... Pua!  This looks so good.   Gonna give it a try!

 

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