An old idea revisited.. Cavalry Warbands

With the pain and suffering of Order in T2 and T3 the last couple of weeks I was reminded of something that started on the Ulthuan server just before the first set of transfers so long ago. A large contingent of us transferred the idea to Bretonnia and it was put to use somewhat frequently until that server shut down as well.

There was a large pop imbalance on Ulthuan after release; 3:1 in Destruction's favor I believe. When the transfers hit this imbalance followed to Bretonnia as well. In those days it was hard to get folks into rvr with the lack of any rewards to be had; so Destro pretty much ruled the day on most days.

Due to this imbalance the idea of Cavalry Warbands came to light; there were many names for them but the one I remember just happens to be Cavalry. Since we were so short on players much of the time these groups would vary in size; anywhere from a 6-man up to a full warband on the best days. These units would run separate from the main forces but in coordination with them.

There were several types of missions for these groups and they varied quite a bit depending on the current situation. Depending on the situation the focus could be misdirection, counter-attacks, etc. For instance, while the main force would be committed to a keep defense the Cav unit could wait away from the action for Destro to commit to the keep. And then at the right time they would attack from behind in a squeeze maneuver while the keep force would push out. Or when severely outnumbered by Destro the Cav force would take random BO's in several zones as well as knocking on keep doors with the occasional take. Taking the BO's was important part of it with the idea of keeping some Destro busy on BO timers. All of this was in an effort to support the main force in taking a zone.

During the last BfB in T2 when we were outnumbered by two warbands I got to thinking about this again. Now, folks in these groups certainly didn't bring in as much renown as the mains but there was a sense of satisfaction in contributing to the greater good.

I'm just throwing this out for a discussion point. :D

I definitely like the idea. I'll be playing Rravensbane a bit in T2, getting ready for when Knuckles and I lead a T2 event the 31st of August, and I'll try putting this into effect.

Its a great idea, Hal! We could put it into action as soon as possible. I would gladly lead a Cavalry group to another leader. I don't care that much for RR, XP and Inf, as long as we have fun and execute nice strategies. =)

I have been running this very type of Warband with Nez/Klepp. We run Hit-and-run, small unit defence and other harrasment type tactics. It is crazy fun and very rewarding on the RR.

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Can I take part on your WB next time, Doc? Seabhran (SW t4), Eirean (SM t3) and Lillandera (BW t2) can be very useful in these units.

Imho, in Trinity/BfB nights, these units better not be PuGs cause their manpower will be cut down, maybe even severly, with folks refusing to abandon a Bo cap or a dtick. And plz count me in too if u try such tactics (Dreanalan:WH t4, Andreann:SW t3, Menelart:KoTBS t2). I need to do some work out, and riding through the land helps alot ;-D

I agree with Dreanalan. And that's why they are not only Cavalry units, but "Knight" units. Not only because they are mounted and mobile, but because they must be the most loyal and commited to the orders of the War Leader. I say this WB should be formed only by Tuatha members. And, more than that, that in the future we get a special "token" (like the ones we get for defeding Keeps and the like) in our profiles for taking part in one of these Knight Warbands. They really will do very distinguished work in the war effort. =)

I agree with Dreanalan. And when I saw these put together in the past they were never pugs; always a guild or alliance thing. In the normal pug it is much too hard to get everyone to follow along. And honestly, if you need to to knock a door down somewhat to ping a keep all you need is five these days. And if the opportunity presents itself you can six man a keep by kiting the Lord to a pad on the second level. I've done that quite a bit in T2; but T3 is a bit tougher. Though I've noticed in coming back that the elf Keep Lord's aoe has been nerfed a little bit somewhere along the way. Another downside to pugs is that groups such as these will tend to die quite a bit when outnumbered. Having a set group that understands the reasoning behind the tactics reduces or eliminates any rage quitting. I am always down for these groups when I'm on by the way. Maybe it's from being former military but I always enjoyed these groups the most. Confusing an enemy always results in satisfaction. I'm also rolling another Warrior Priest to get up to T2 for events and pick-ups. (I know I know... but it's one of my favorite classes since beta :P) So whenever someone sets up a Cav group I'm in if there's room. Halsinki - WP25 Will be in T4 soon hopefully Hallembacht - IB27 An old pre-rvr gear toon that needs some work.. but it straight tank specced and geared for now Halheim - WP1 Will take me a day or so to get into T2 Halyna - WL21 defense specced so really just an off-tank instead of massive dps Hallindor - RP12 Halikai - 24SM Haldana - 14SW Halcyona - 24WL currently moonlighting as a bank toon Hallerud - 21EN Tinker specced for utility A couple of these were transferred from old servers so I haven't played them in awhile and that's why they're not in the guild. No sense in taking up space with lazy, inactive toons.:P But as my mains get up in level I can jump on the others to participate in events. Though I must admit.. it's taking me quite awhile to get used to the IB again. I actually considered rerolling him but he's already at 27 and it seems all the tiers up to T3 are short on tanks. I figured I might as well list the others though just in case they pop up somewhere.. easier to recognize. lol a couple more notes... ** In the past these tactics worked best when the *designated* realm captain was leading the effort. Guerilla groups can have fun but don't contribute much to the overall effort in the end. I know that I'm probably being a stickler for that but if the idea is to turn everyone's SoR UI blue it would probably work best that way. :P ** I'm used to and a bit prone to calling them Cav units.. being a former Gun Bunny it comes natural. ;) I'm not stuck on it though really. If this idea goes forward we should come to a consensus on name so it's easily recognizable for the alliance.. or trinity if that's where it stays. ** After a few successful runs alot of folks will probably donate their services. When this started on Ulthuan in the lower tiers it attracted alot of people... and once I was on Bretonnia there was a pretty steady group of folks it T2 and T3 eventually that grew it to warband size. We wound having to turn people away to join on the main forces. And thanks for the replies. I hesitated a bit in posting it up... lol. I feel a bit awkward with things like this after being away from the game so long. But I do think this would add a new dimension to rvr here for the people that need that. "Toujours Pret" Always Ready - 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment

I agree with Seab as well. Maybe on event nights there could be a separate event listed in order to claim participation? Good idea...

Hey Hal, strategical or tactical thinking (i ve learned that there is a difference between these 2 as a chess player), got nothing to do with how well u know the game or how long u ve been away from it. It's something u ve got a talent to or u dont. :) So keep posting cowboy. Now, tho only tuatha ninja/cavalry/whatever units prolly will contribute more, there are some individuals who can also get the job done. When i tried to lit a few keeps up the other nite, aside 3 tuatha members, an x random engi volunteered to come with my group. Thats why i mentioned "non-pugs" and not "/as" grps/wbs. If i notice Hal, e.g, having a hard time to get that rvr armor i would prefer to let him get the dtick and get someone else to do the dirty job.

» Edited on: 2010-08-23 16:58:19

A bit more to your point Drean... I don't think anyone would need to commit to this soley because that would detract from the rest of the rvr and game experience. Having a core group of folks expected to do this every time wouldn't fall in line with the core values of the Tuatha; allowing folks to play how and when they want. Perhaps having a core group that can be contacted when it's needed or to sign up event wise should be the goal. But I do think that there is a certain type of person that enjoys this type of gameplay and once known it shouldn't be hard to fill out a group; no matter the size. And you're absolutely right on non Tuatha players. I know of a few in my short time back that might be interested as well. Do you remember Chessmaster 5000 by the way? I played a considerable bit when I was a kid. Once Chessmaster came out it helped fill the void when there was nobody close for matches. I haven't played much in years though... and to be honest I was never as good as I thought I was at any given time. lol

The non-pug family only "Raiders" idea is not only great for the lake but for bringing Scenario points more in our favor as well. 6 man teams.. the smallest manuever element. (in a wb for centralized control and SA, strategic objectives, using mobility to overcome odds... or 6 man decentralized, tactical obj's/harrassment etc.) Roger's Rangers anyone? This would work but you need rehersals to get the most for your money out of it. *P.S. One thing I can't quite put my finger on is why we (and I mean order in this instance) don't "prep" the playing field by building points with Scenarios an hour or two before the lake. Ouch this is hurting my brain! I Sooo wanna be a part of this if it goes!

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» Edited on: 2010-08-23 21:18:45

Oh I thought I'd mention that as of Sunday, the ebb is starting to flow back in Orders favor a smidgeon in t3. I think alot of those new destro folks are hitting t4 and either taking it on the chin or starting over in t1 again.

One last thing I thought I'd mention: (for real this time..hah) I haven't been here nearly as long as alot of you. There are some really great leaders coordinating and strategizing on event nights with alot of experience which is why I love this guild. (With systems already in place that work.) I think someone mentioned it in another thread, but just thought I offer an observation from the back seat: When the event grows pretty large, 4 or 5 wb's.. vent is getting very hard to hear clear 'orders'. Especially if you are unfamiliar with voices and characters..lol.. example: "Lisa, take your wb to ..." player: *Who is Lisa's character.. am I in that wb?* Re-iterating orders in /wb chat really helps me maintain focus on my wb's objectives. I know its going to be near impossible to keep others in the lake from filling /region, /rwc, and /wb with spam.. so I try my best to watch for those SoR messages as they stick out best in the chatter. Please use it as often as possible leaders.

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» Edited on: 2010-08-23 20:54:32

Well since ventrilo is not the communication prog of my choice (mostly used to teamspeak and skype), i do log in when there is a need, and tho now i m kinda familiarized with some names/nicks (hey that Ravensbane is Vampiresbane right? :) ) yeah there might be some prob with communication. Good thing i m used to check my wb leader's location and stick there hehe :) On the other hand Haang, leading a bunch of pugs can be extremely draining. So it IS possible that the x leader might forget to "type" an order. Especially when he notices that 70-80% on his wb (vent using oldtime tuatha members) are doing what they should do. As far as the scenario idea, atm i m not really fond to play mini games and i feel sad thinking that i ll HAVE to do so in t4, but if there is a need of premade sc teams, i ll try to help (Note: I m a bit noob to scs, farming solely Nordenwatch with my twink toons). Hehe Hal yeah i remember Chessmaster, and it was a quite decent chess engine. :) Unfortunately when playin chess in the premier league dont let much mental power left to play chess with AI in your spare time.

Haha... chess can be demanding for sure Dreanalan. But then there was always a great satisfaction in either defeating or even losing to a quality opponent.

In order to take this further I was thinking... Those that have expressed interest would enjoy setting something like this up on a semi-regular basis even; just my assumption. In order to take it further on a formal basis there would need to be members of Lorgair rank and above open to organizing and leading these particular units. I agree with the comments on guerilla groups by the way.. they are alot of fun in their own right. But with this thread I was targeting a specific unit that supports the main forces in a tier; whether that be during events such as Trinity or BfB... or even during normal everyday rvr when the population supports it. So I was thinking that the idea can't go much further until at least some of the normal Warband leaders are involved in the process. My proposal would be to set a date for a "conference call"; maybe on a particular weekend day and time when there is a higher concentration of Tuatha on. This "conference call" could be a city warband at that time that those who are interested could join in on for the discussion; along with a specific room for those that prefer vent. That way discussion could take place both on vent and in warband chat for those who prefer chat instead. I'm not much of a vent person myself but I do like to get in for events when my ventrilo isn't bugging my passwords out.:P So in this scenario we have those interested in Cavalry (or whichever name is agreed upon) units and those who commonly lead in rvr together for a discussion on what tactics warband leaders would like to see in order to help their efforts the most. I still believe that during large scale operations with multiple warbands the leader of that particular tier should call the shots; having a well manned group capable of subterfuge, misdirection, counterattacks, etc. will give our Warband leaders an extra card in their back pocket to play when it's needed. This is just my opinion though.:P I guess that's why I'm suggesting a "conference call"; many heads are greater than 1 or 2 and we should elicit input from those that will benefit most from having an extra arm at their disposal. By the way, I mentioned Tuatha above for the meeting but I do believe out of alliance Leaders that are commonly leading rvr should be included in the discussion as well if they choose to take part. All of us could contact those that we personally know to see if they would be interested in joining in the discussion; or at the least to inform them of the goings on. So what say you? P.S. I'm realizing that I rambled a bit there. lol So I do apologize for that. My sleep schedule is off for some reason so I pulled an all-nighter last night in the hopes of getting back on track tonight. And thanks to everyone for giving their two cents. It validates my decision to come back to the game.. happy to see folks that are interested in alternative gameplay to spice things up. :D

Yeah this conference call sounds like a great idea, especially if we are to use such tactics in Tuatha events also. I hope the event warband leaders would like to spare some time in the following weekend or wherever their rl/in game schedule allows them to discuss the whole thing thorougly. Of cource aside the leaders we are gonna also need the troops who would like to take part, since a handfull of people can accomplish mainly lesser tasks.

Thirtyeightt has been trying to organize something similar to what Halsinki is referring to (38t is focusing on developing coordinated 6-man teams). Maybe these two idea's could be combined/used together... Be sure to check his post as well "Now Enrolling for Small Units Training Workshop"

Oh, and as for Cavalry Warbands - I would love to see them tweak the KotBS class, so that one of the three training paths would lead to the ability to fight on horseback. Either that, or add a Cavalier Class... That'd be cool :)

Stoat - Mounted combat would be a great thing to add in; especially if it was a limited number of classes on each realm. So instead of a big zerg of mounted fighting maybe that would force a bit of new strategy into rvr; along with the qq from those who couldn't fight while mounted. Take the good with the bad I guess..:P

I had a lengthy post earlier I was putting up and got an sql error on post so I'll recreate the jist of it best I can..:P While there's been some hits on the post and good back and forth I wouldn't expect there to be great interest in this unless there's something tangible to look at to drive that interest. When bringing up the idea of a "conference call" of sorts I should have realized that. I've been a little short on sleep this week so I was a bit overzealous there while overlooking the obvious. While going back and forth with ideas I unintentionally glossed over that Vampiresbane graciously offered to try this out while leading BfB next Tuesday. So maybe the best idea at this point would be that those that are interested in testing this out in live form come out to BfB Tuesday night and hopefully the situation will allow for a test run. Those of us that do come could do a bit of recruiting on the side and we can see if we can get a 12-man or up group for that night. If Vamp is still good with this maybe those of us with vent (I'll have mine fixed before then)could get in 15-min or so before the event starts to discuss what everyone would like to see out of the events as they unfold during BfB. If the situation allows that we do get some things done that night then after all is said and done Vampiresbane can make the call on whether or not it was supportive to the main effort. If it is then we can expand the discussion at that point and then the night's results can determine whether or not there's enough interest to move forward. If you're interested in joining in on this for Tuesday please leave a post in here so everyone can be contacted that night. I'm hoping that with four days time we can get enough interested folks to make at least a measurable run.;) On the subject of 6-mans... My intent with the idea originally was not meant at all to be a slight to the Small Group goings on in process. I was only thinking of it in a larger context player wise and as a supportive force in large scale RvR. Beyond that though, maybe they could be combined and/or used in similar ways. But the first step in this process will be to see if it's still viable in high pop rvr situations and if it is whether it will drive the interest of the common cast of warband or event Leaders. So in some ways I guess that if Vampiresbane is still open to trying it out on Tuesday he will be the Leader guinea pig for this.:P

If its T3 night, I would love to help. Unfortunately, at this point, I have 3 x t3 toons and 1 t4 toon.

My sword is with you, Hal! Count me in for our First Ride of the Gaiscioch Light Cavalry. I'd have Eirean (if she's still T3 by Tuesday) or Delianath (A swordmaster too, follower of the path of Khaine instead of Eirean's path of Hoeth). Both can tank reasonably well, despite Delianath still being equiped only in T2 gear.